Small But Mighty Episode 11: Evelyn Watts on going from serial hobbyist role to side-gig success

Evelyn Watts is one of the most talented product marketers I know. But she's also got some mad skills with jewelry. So, Evelyn started Wavy Nettles, a part-time labour of love that fills a creative need. While some people consider side gigs to be "optional" for the people who choose to pursue them, they're often a way to do the kind of work you don't have the freedom to do because your boss has other plans. 

Be sure to check out what's available for the holidays from Wavy Nettles and follow Evelyn on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram. And don’t forget to use "smallbutmighty2020" for 10% off your 2020 holiday order!

Full episode transcript:

Karen Wilson - Hi there, friends! Thank you for joining me on the small but mighty biz stories podcast. I'm super excited to have my good friend, former co-worker, and occasional co-conspirator in all things fun with me today. Her name is Evelyn watts, and we're going to talk about Ev's hobby turned side gig, Wavy Nettles. It's great to have you on today, Evelyn. Please take over and tell everyone about yourself.

Evelyn Watts - Thank you, Karen, co-conspirator. So, I'm going to talk about my longtime passion. More recent side gig, Wavy Nettles, which is a handcrafted jewelry design studio, because I am have been an aspiring metalsmith for quite some time.

Karen Wilson - Yes, and you are also one of those brave souls who work in tech marketing, which is how we met. So, Wavy Nettles isn't a full-time business for you. And there may be some people wondering why I'm interviewing someone whose businesses, quote-unquote, optional. Let me just say that the side gig is real. And it holds a very special place in my heart since I did it for seven years, myself. And I'm a big believer that business stories come in all shapes and sizes.

So, I hope that people who are wondering whether they should start a side business will listen, get inspired and take action when they can. With that out of the way, tell me how you got into making jewelry.

Evelyn Watts - All right, well, I think you described at one time, Karen, calling me a serial hobbyist, which I think is true. I always like to know how things are made. I have this crazy desire to unbreak things and figure out how it all works. Because I just like to know. And my mom's always been so keen on like arts and crafts, and taught me how to sew and knit and all the things you don't have patience for when you're in your 20s and teens.

So, I've always picked up kind of as an outlet really, because tech and knowledge workers in general—it can be very rewarding career, and I love my career, but there's something about having that creative outlet, kind of the unplugging your brain or having some sort of something that's your own. And so it was always crafts or something, I pick it up, learn it, and then move on to the next move on to the next.

And about four, no, six years ago, actually, I got to a point where I was really enjoying like wire wrapping and some of those kind of beaded works. And I could sit and watch TV and do it. And it was really helpful kind of way to decompress, and de stress—knitting and so on. And I started, I started selling stuff to co-workers. And it was a bit of a lightbulb moment where I'm like, this isn't just something I can make. This is something I can have a business out of, and not replace my job. But it felt very validating. And it was also a clever way to fund said hobbies, set it so that no one complained about why you had so many boxes of tools or yarn or whatever else was in your, you know, basement. So, I'm trying to not go on forever.

But I had a really great opportunity, I was in a job that at the time wasn't as challenging as I was hoping it was going to be. It wasn't necessarily fueling my creative energies at work. And so I said, listen, I'm really enjoying this, I want to see if this is something that will stick as opposed to the serial hobbyist. And I took a course at I'll golf and had these great—a local college—and they have these great special interest courses. And it was how to make a silver ring. Like I was like okay, this is stuff I never even thought I could try. I'm going to go do it. And I absolutely fell in love and then turning it into a side hobby was just a nice, a nice entry. So, instead of "this is all I'm going to do" was a nice entry to slowly build slowly fund the things or tools and just kind of give me also an outlet that had structure and a reason to exist and reason to grow. For me, it's been something I've been doing for like the last six years. And I love it. It's definitely my creative outlet.

Karen Wilson - Yeah, they're it's interesting that you bring up creative outlets because there's been this story going around about Kurt Vonnegut and him sending a letter to a teacher—something about being creative for the sake of practicing creativity, not necessarily to share it with anyone else. Which is a cool idea and I like it, I agree with it. I'm on board with taking a step back from hobbies you love and not looking at them as Money Making ventures or at least not exclusively.

But I also think it's really cool to monetize them when it feels right and make sense, especially if the monetization allows you to expand on the hobby because I know with the jewelry making, you can invest quite a bit in it, if you if you didn't also have something coming in from it. But I think also, this whole idea of not monetizing hobbies is rooted in the idea that running a business is kind of a soul-sucking exercise. But I think you can operate a business in a way that preserves that joy and the love that you have for what you're doing, even as you take money for doing those things. So, I wanted to find out when you did decide to start selling your jewelry, what was the thought process you went through? Was there any hesitation or reservations around it?

Evelyn Watts - I think there there always is. Because for anyone who creates something and then has to put it out in the world, there's—imposter syndrome is a bitch. Because it never good never leaves, someone always does it better.

There's all these reasons not to do it, not to be vulnerable. I think that's a big piece. Because, sometimes—and I totally get it—you create for your own private reasons pleasure, whatever it is, it's not meant to be shared. And then there's, I think there's a point where maybe it's a level of confidence, or that validation usually starts with friends and family. Oh, I really like this I'll pay you for and you're like, What? You're gonna give me money? Like, Oh, well, no, no, no, it's not worth anything. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. No, no, no. It's not good enough.

And then the other challenge of turning something into a business is that—and I was told by this by a former co worker: is not to do it, because then it's going to be a business and you'll lose the passion for it's not going to be the thing that you want to do is when you think you have to do. And so, what is it you're getting out of your hobby? Is it just for your own sake?

Or is it something that is—it is a different part of you like, I am not just my job title, I am not just the company I work for, I am not just one thing. And it allows you to explore a different part of what you have to offer and what you can create. And honestly, in my own career, in product marketing, it's given me a lot more empathy, I think.

Anyone who works for another business, running your own business really shows you a lot of decisions that have to get made that may be totally outside the realm of your role. But having that level of perspective, I think, just makes you also better. You have more to offer your company when you have at least a base understanding of what it takes to run a business.

Karen Wilson - Yeah, well, I was actually—it's almost like you know the questions I'm gonna ask you before I ask them. Because these days it really does seem really common that people have a side business almost more common than not, maybe it's just the circles that we run in. But it does seem pretty common. And some companies even encourage people to either start their own thing or they recruit looking for people who already have something that they that they own and are working on. And it probably saves a little money on toner and paper when they don't have to include those moonlighting clauses.

What do you think is driving this shift where people are actually doing a side gig more and more often? And do you think it creates some unique advantages for the companies that embrace this?

Evelyn Watts - Yeah, I mean, just looking back in the last, I don't know how many years—not even that many years, right? Very few people retire after a 30-, 40-year career, even 20 years at the same company is a rarity in a lot of places, depending on industry. So, I think the idea that you are going to move around and there is advantage to that you are.

I've always looked at my mom—my mom, I love her. She was one of the first systems analyst. So, she was a woman in tech, many, many, many years ago and very male dominated. And her advice to me I took helped me a lot and one of them was treating every job or every role that you have, and that you are a sponge. And your job is to like soak up as much as you can, and then move on to the next. And it wasn't necessary to move from a company, but don't be doing the same thing for more than two to three years. Like you're not going to grow.

I've looked at everything I do is okay, that's awesome. This is this is a chapter. Now, what's my next chapter? How does this build out my story or, you know, those kinds of things. I think that that type of attitude, especially in the market today is where you can move around, you are going to give and get different things from different roles, opportunities, jobs. So, I think that's been one piece. And I think for the idea of the side gig, like you can't necessarily bank on having the same role, career, company even be around for more than X number of years, right? There's so much uncertainty.

So, carving out your own path. And it's been, to me, it seems so much more accessible, like there's So, I mean, even just starting an online store is much easier. Twenty years ago—not to date myself, I was, okay, more than 20 years ago, before my corporate life started—I was in a program run by, I think it was Industry Canada. Anyway, it was a government program for youth entrepreneurs, and you took a year, and you had advisors, counselors, all these things that walk you through how to start a business or how to build a business. And that was before my first corporate job. And that business I started with a partner was helping small businesses get online.

Because at the time, it was not accessible. You had to know code, you had to know all these things. It was so hard. And so that was my origin was helping small business, how do you do the thing, because I'd like to know how things work. And then I went into the corporate world. And which I also like to know how things work, which is how I ended up in product marketing, because, you know, I need to know how it goes together. But from 20 years ago to now, starting a side gig, even if you're not selling, you can start your own podcast, Karen, starting your own blog, starting your own your own thing. Yeah, is so much easier now than it was you know, even 10 years ago,

Karen Wilson - Gosh, even podcasts. I remember just seven or eight years ago, trying to start a podcast or, or dreaming of starting a podcast, rather, because it really never went anywhere at the time. But it's so easy now. And everybody's starting them. You know, there were so many podcasts in the mid 2000s. And then now there's, you know, this resurgence that's happened. And it's, it is fascinating to see how technology has really enabled people to access these abilities to start various different hobbies, side gigs.

Evelyn Watts - And I think the other part, too, is people now seem to be much more interested in how things are made, who makes their stuff. So, it's not just everything comes from these big brands. Even if the thing that you want to do or the whatever it is you make that you want to put out in the world: Yes, there's other people that do it. Yes, there's gonna be all these other things. But there's, it's not a limited pool of buyers or audience. Someone will find you. There's something special about what you can do, whether it's your story or your product, or whatever. So, I would say not to be intimidated by yes, there's lots of other people doing it. But there is something that you can offer that isn't already out there.

Karen Wilson - Yeah, that's a great point. Because in the handmade jewelry market, there are there are so many different artisans out there. And yet you were telling me just last week that you had someone order from across the world, Australia.

Evelyn Watts - So, the second someone you don't know buys from you, you're like, holy crap that just happened. I started on Etsy, because it was easy, right? Although once you want to kind of own your brand, you tend to outgrow it. But the very first order I got was from a lady in Belgium, who was buying a copper cuff or whatever—I think that's what it was—for her sister's birthday. And I was like, oh, okay, that just happened. That's amazing. And then yeah, last week, I just relaunched my website because, again, building your brand and whenever it's all that stuff, you gotta put yourself out there was from Australia. Like I don't even know this person. This is amazing. Okay, this is legit. I need to make more of that.

Karen Wilson - That's awesome. So, one of the challenges with having a hobby that's also a side gig is that it can be cathartic and a great creative outlet. While it can be cathartic and a great creative outlet, it can also be one of the first things to go when the life in the corporate world gets challenging. Do you ever feel pressured to maintain some consistency and formality with Wavy Nettles?

Evelyn Watts - Yeah, I think one of the challenges is when it is your side thing and you have a professional life—and I'm still trying to work my way through this, you know, who is Evelyn? Corporate professional Evelyn or my side business? And so that's definitely a challenge is blurring the lines, right? Because there's, there's work and then there's life. And then there's this side business. That's a mental gymnastics I think you have to go through. And then, yes, life gets busy.

I actually remember just not doing anything for two years. I would spend my time maybe learning something that was my cathartic play, I would play. And then the challenge with that, though, is if you leave it too long on the back burner, you feel like you're missing a piece, like you're not taking care of part of your outlet, if your outlet is also, sharing what you have with the world and doing other things. So, I noticed I felt that way, about three years where I just didn't, I just kind of left on vacation mode, so to speak. And if something came in, great, but it wasn't pleasurable, it wasn't fun. It was more pressure. But not maintaining it or doing something is almost like overcorrecting.

So, you feel like you're lacking now. And then there's that pressure, if I'm not doing it, I need to be doing this. This is what I'm happy doing. So, yeah, there's a bit of a balance, right? And it's, you know, but it's okay, that's the thing, I had to forgive myself. It's okay to not do the thing because you have other things going on. But there is that when you're not just tinkering. My husband calls it my tinker room and he makes these sounds like I'm tinkering or beating something to death, but okay. Maybe, maybe it's not me.

Karen Wilson - That's part of that catharsis for you, because you are actually beating metal into shape.

Evelyn Watts - Dude, listen, it's the opposite of software town. Software is this lovely, ambiguous thing that, it's not tactile. And then you get to go into a little room and beat the crap out of metal set things on fire, bend things out of shape. All low tech. Yeah, it definitely feeds the other side of your brain.

Karen Wilson - Totally, totally. And you've produced some really, really gorgeous pieces. I first learned about Wavy Nettles back when we worked at Halogen together a while ago. I think it was a holiday event? And they did some sort of a market where everybody could just come sell stuff if they wanted to. And I bought this really cool necklace from you that I love and I don't think I ever told you about this, but blue Topaz, because there's a little blue Topaz stone in it, it has a bit of a special meaning for me. Because my grandmother was a big QVC watcher and buyer.

Evelyn Watts - Oh yeah, so was mine!

Karen Wilson - I remember one time she bought this watch ring, just so she could see what it looked like up close. She didn't want the ring. She just wanted to see what it looked like.

Evelyn Watts - I hope they had a good return policy.

Karen Wilson - Oh, she didn't return it.

Evelyn Watts - They never do.

Karen Wilson - It's in my DNA. I do the same thing. So, she bought this watch ring and then and I think she also bought this silver ring with blue Topaz stone in it. And so it was the first time I'd had silver jewelry. And the first time I actually had a ring gifted to me that would fit because I don't have petite fingers. So, um, I lost the ring. And now anytime I see something that's blue Topaz, I'm like oh, and it just feels like I'm getting a little piece of my grandma's ring back. So, when I saw that necklace, I really wanted it. I was thinking about that the other day when I was going through prepping and I wanted to hear some of the stories you've gotten from people about custom work, like what are some of the reasons people come to you to buy special pieces for loved ones?

Evelyn Watts - Oh, that's my favorite part. There's always the collection, ready-to-ship made stuff and then there's stuff where I've done wedding rings, so silver wedding rings, but instead of gems, people want things typed on the inside or stamped on the inside. I remember I had one and I couldn't decipher it. It was a series of dots. And it was not Morse code. But there was something—whatever the message was—they had something secret for each other. And it was, that's what they wanted a ring. There was another I did—a copper bracelets for etching requires multiple steps and acid, which is also another fun thing to play with. But wait, that didn't come out. Right. But

Karen Wilson - No, I can see why that would be fun, though.

Evelyn Watts - But you could ask for special designs, and I can create them. And it was a Welsh, she wanted a Welsh word that meant a loved one on this bracelet, and I was like I didn't, okay, that was amazing. And there's another where someone, I'm working on one now where it's for a daughter, it's someone who's going to be going into the military. And they're waiting. So, they want to get her up basically a jewelry as a dog tag with a special message on it. So, there's something like while she's waiting, this is like you're waiting for something special.

There's all kind of cool little stories, even if it's why you're getting something a woman was getting a leather band, I don't make them right now. But I should probably bring them back—they were popular—leather and metal cuff. And again, special messages, all this kind of stuff. So, I love the stories. I didn't know that about you, Karen.

But that's part of the reason why I go back to the idea of if you're creating things, putting it out in the world is telling a story. And it's someone telling a story themselves. It's someone telling a story about just keeping those craft skills alive, because traditional arts and handmade is so special. So, that's the stuff that that kind of makes me happy. It didn't get poured out of a machine. It was made by hands and it was made with meaning and it means something to someone else.

Karen Wilson - Yeah. Well, you said that you've made wedding rings. Is there extra pressure with a wedding ring that isn't there for other pieces? That would be intimidating to me. I'd be a little bit stressed.

Evelyn Watts - Not screwing it up is step number one.

Karen Wilson - And two through 10, too.

Evelyn Watts - Yeah, don't mess this up. But then, the ability to like write a special message for them. Your life together starts now, you can, because you know the story, you can do something or say something that is meaningful for them as well. And that's the that's the nice extra touch that I like to do.

Karen Wilson - That's so cool. And your jewelry is not, it's very bohemian. Sort of eclectic. It it's not perfection that you're gonna find at some major jewelry store. It's very earthy.

Evelyn Watts - I think you've just described to me, Karen, and many personalities. Yeah, that's what I like.

Karen Wilson - Well, you do come across in your jewelry.

Evelyn Watts - Oh, that's made me feel—I feel very seen now. I feel very seen. I think what I—it's what I appreciate about handmade goods. You'll see a tool mark. It's never two things that are quite the same. It's always made one by one. My grandfather was a machinist. So, he would make his own tools. I like seeing how different things come together and the different looks you can get. But I like that everything is a one of a kind. It was made once and it's one at a time. It's not a cookie cutter. And it was made for someone. So, that's what I like. I like extremes: I like the simple. I like to make statements. I have many different things and so that's why I like kind of a variety of stuff for people, too.

Karen Wilson - Yeah, definitely. So, you work in marketing all day. And I know that, for myself, it was always challenging to sort of go home and then try to market myself in my business. I actually took a different approach. I didn't actually, I kind of had my website, I would write a blog post here and there, but I didn't really have a social presence. Because most of my clients came in from networking. But that's harder to do when you're making jewelry. So, what have you learned and discovered in marketing your business over the years?

Evelyn Watts - I think it comes down to what one, you don't really want to do your day job at night, which is why it's way more fun to make stuff, because that's what gets you into it. And when you do it for a job, you're doing it for someone else. So, it's like, there's this level of separation. And then suddenly, you're doing it yourself and like, Oh, I know how to do this. I got to do it. For me.

It's a different level. Recently, when I realized I had to send people to Etsy, which was great to get started, totally great, but I didn't stand out. I'm there with everyone else. I don't really have control of my brand. There's no other way to find me. That's when I registered a domain, started building a website, you know, get all get the Facebook and the Instagram profiles done.

Unfortunately, when you put things on the backburner, you let that sit. So, recently, my wonderful and talented daughter-in-law, who's a digital illustrator, and scarf designer. (So, you can sell entrepreneurship and business stuff happens all over and all around my friends and family.) She redid my logo for me last year. So, we did the logo and that was almost like, oh, facelift time. Excellent. Let's take this stab at it—2.0. And so now it's getting myself putting myself out there, which is always the hardest part. You get yourself out there and just make you building back up the community that I had, and making sure that I'm putting beautiful things out there and telling people stories.

Karen Wilson - Yeah. Have you ever had any aha moments in the side gig that you could apply to your day job?

Evelyn Watts - Oh, yeah.

Karen Wilson - That's a tough one. Because you're talking about—it's very, very, very different.

Evelyn Watts - Being too close to the product. So, I, because I've been in marketing, I mean, I've been in development and product teams, all that kind of stuff. But you have this level of perspective, because you're not making the sausage, you're going to go market the sausage.

But when you're the business owner, or the creator, you are the product. And so I find that it's been valuable empathy building for working with teams who are actually building products that you have to market is how close you can be and how easy it is to not see the full picture because you're in the weeds doing the thing. I remember having product descriptions that were very functional, very how I did it, and I'm like, okay, no one knows what I'm talking about.

This is like some technique that you like, or, and it was like dimensions, and it was literally a feature list, which I would scoff at if I was at work. No one cares about your features! So, I've done that to myself to where I'm like, Oh, that's how that that's why that happens. Okay, better empathy, better perspective.

Sometimes you have to call in a friend phone a friend, be like, Okay, what does this say to you? Why would Why does anyone care about this? I'll have my husband try and help, which is hilarious. He wants to do product descriptions. And maybe one day I'll let him do some because they're wild. Nothing I would ever say.

Karen Wilson - I didn't know this about him.

Evelyn Watts - Oh, yeah. One day he said he said maybe I could do your social medias. I'm like, you don't know what that is, Luddite. Which is probably best, but usually he's threatened to like, be mean for a day and like, Oh, I don't think the world's ready for that.

Karen Wilson - Yeah. Oh, my goodness. So, what's next for Wavy Nettles now?

Evelyn Watts - Well, right now I've committed to doing the social medias. Even if it kills me, I'm going to be—I'm going to figure this thing out: Post every day. Making every day. I figure this is now that I've got my energy back and focus back and take me back off the back burner. This is the best time of year. I want to make beautiful things that go out in the world.

So, I've been working on collections and just picking up all of those, the old favorites. And just having a blast right now. I literally have in our, in our home, we have a tiny bedroom—tiny, tiny little bedroom that I've turned into a studio. And this is how sentimental I am, Karen, this is how sentimental.

The dining room table in our old house didn't work in our new house. But it's my grandparents' and it's from the 1920s. It's damaged, all that kind of stuff. But it's beautiful, beautiful wood. And so, we converted that into a jewelry desk. So, I get to work at my grandparents' oak dining room table from the 20s making and tinkering and just connecting with people. So, yeah, definitely my happy place.

Karen Wilson - Yeah, I have my grandmother's cedar chest behind me. So, right there all the time. I get it, I totally get it. So, tell me, Evelyn, how can people find you and Wavy Nettles?

Evelyn Watts - Well, Karen, you can find me on my new website, wavynettles.com. Wavy Nettles is actually an anagram of Evelyn Watts. Because sometimes you run out of creative juice, and you have to go to a website and you find something cool. So, it's the other side of Evelyn.

Karen Wilson - That worked out well!

Evelyn Watts - I know it did. I really like it. It's wavynettles.com. I also have a Facebook page, or it's literally WavyNettles, as is Instagram wavynettles, which is why having a business name that you can keep across all of your things is so awesome.

Karen Wilson - It is awesome. Yeah, I do not have that.

Evelyn Watts - I even have a Pinterest identity, which I have to still work through on what I'm going to do. Because I'm in that. I've got a scrolling thumb issue now, because I'm looking at all of the things. It's an actual injury. But, yeah, all the places.

Karen Wilson - Yeah, there's, it's interesting how, you know, when I'm going, I'll have a legitimate thing that I need to go and do on a particular social media site. And then I get sucked in because they are designed to addict you.

Evelyn Watts - There's a Netflix episode you should watch. It's good.

Karen Wilson - Oh, yeah, I watched it.

Evelyn Watts - But as someone who's trying to market yourself, all of that data on all those social platforms can really help you find your, your audience, your collective.

Karen Wilson - Absolutely, absolutely. That's very true. So, I will make sure that all of the links to where to find you get into the show notes. For listeners who go and find you, we wanted to give them a special offer today. What's that going to be, Evelyn?

Evelyn Watts - Well, Karen, I am going to make a special discount coupon for all of your listeners. It will be smallbutmighty2020. And I'm going to put that on wavynettles.com. So, anyone who wants to purchase anything before the say said holidays, which are arriving and get 10% off.

Karen Wilson - Awesome. That's great. Well, I will make sure all of it gets in there. And I hope that your inbox gets filled up with lots of jewelry orders for the holidays.

Evelyn Watts - Awesome. Thank you, Karen. I have fun making and people have been telling their stories so it works out.

Karen Wilson - Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on and telling me all about your business.

Evelyn Watts - Thank you, Karen.